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  • Avatar
    Content Creator

    Thank you Angelico  :)

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    Raspberry Crystal

    That's a shame. I'll miss Jim's input here.

    I guess this means the regulars here will be redirecting people to mantis / support when they need help.

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    Arkady Arkright

    It's certainly worth registering with Mantis anyway - it's no big deal, you don't need to be a techie to do it - and it's the medium the developers use to tell them what needs fixing/enhancing.

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    shannara llewellyn

    wow that sort of proves my theory that no one seems to notice no one seems to care what is the point of posting here if we are talking to ourselves

    over and out xXx

  • Avatar
    shannara llewellyn

    p.s. one of the best things about IW was the fact that it was so easy to talk to the founders on the forum and they actually listened to us and gave us feedback it made IW feel like a community ... this is just one more step to making IW like SL were linden doesn't care about its residents

  • Avatar
    Jim Tarber (Edited )

    I want to be clear, the whole purpose of me being more disciplined with regards to my forum participation is to do more to ensure that the InWorldz residents who are using the proper, more efficient methods of reporting issues (support requests and bug tracking reports) are not ignored, but that their reports are tracked and monitored.

    I’m trying to make sure those proper reports are not ignored in favor of other residents who feel the need to post an untracked comment in a public place, often in an attempt use the forum to “jump the queue” ahead of the other residents reports. We triage the reports in the Mantis bug tracking system, so urgent problematic issues will be dealt with as soon as possible regardless of how many other reports are already in the system. Most of the residents with issues to report have no trouble reporting issues in the proper place, where we can focus on the technical symptoms etc, and avoid the time abyss of forum drama magnets.

    Also, I want to be clear that both support issue and bug reports are optional. We’re not insisting people file reports or shaming anyone who doesn’t. You’re here to have fun, not do paperwork. It’s just that if a problem is bothering you enough that it is worth it to you, then by all means report it and we’ll see what we can do.

    But reports in the forums are for other residents to see and comment on, not for me or Support staff. I owe it to those residents who take the time to properly report a bug or support issue, where they can be tracked, where they are not lost in a sea of unrelated social events etc.

    To post this message now, I've taken time away from investigating the issues with slow texture loads, asset fetches and uploads. I don't think anyone really wants that to happen on a regular basis.  I could spend more time participating in the forums (and I would love it if InWorldz was large enough to have a full-time social media spokesman) but the reality is that I am a software developer who should be spending as much time as possible fixing bugs, investigating support escalations and making things better.

  • Avatar
    Content Creator

    Shannara, how on Earth did you make the jump from "post things in the right place" to "IW doesn't care about its residents?"  And why do you think the founders have time to read through the forums when there's a business to run?  If the founders have enough time to spend their time posting and replying on the forums all day... we're in trouble.

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    Sophia Larkspur

    I don't blame them  There are always people who think they have a better idea and will argue the point till the cows come home, forcing IW to spend way too much time explaining how to make butter from cream, when they really do have more important things to do.

    I was glad to find out about the blog tho, I have also registered on the mantis.

     

     

     

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    Yichard Muni

    I think in many cases, people are not sure if what they see is a bug, or not sure what others think is a good feature proposal. So that the forumis stilml useful to discuss among residents. So when this discussion shows that there is a real bug/reature, we go to the Mantis, which makes the demand official (and known).

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    Trouble Mooncurser

    Message to the founders : i still think its a good idea to let forum readers know whats in progress in grid maintenance and development . No, techs should not debate endless with forum users, but .. sill many people are checking the forum and founders should use this as PR tool and inform residents with short messages like " were working on " " we have made progress on " subjects. Just saying .

    Make sure u keep noticed by your audience :D 

  • Avatar
    Drew Hunter

    I agree with Trouble.  We need to hear short little updates about IW.  Let us know your listening to your users, because I'm feeling a little bit abandoned by the Developers and Founders and I'm sure I'm not alone in that felling.  Just saying.

  • Avatar
    Yichard Muni

    Ditto. A short summary should not harm.

     

    Writting a post in the forum is much less work than inewz, and everybody can read it.

  • Avatar
    Content Creator

    I agree that it would be nice to see periodic updates about what InWorldz, LLC. is up to, engagement with the community is always a good thing, perhaps we should come up with a suggestion to pass long to Elenia (per Jim's blog post).

    It's the holiday season, and there are a lot of activities going in both RL and IW, so perhaps we should focus on coming up with a reasonable request for periodic updates regarding the status of InWorldz for the New Year?

  • Avatar
    Logan Stargazer

    @Shannara
    How true, they spend more and more time on Mt Olympus and less with us peons as time goes by. Of *course* it's a business. Inworldz exists to make as much money as possible and has gone from "Our Grid" to "Linden Labs Jr".

    @Jim
    The forum isn't use to “jump the queue”. Its used to report problems to the other people in the hopes those problems can be solved *without* filing a Mantis and taking up the Techs' time. Maybe one of *us* can help the poster.

    First you try the forums to see if somebody can help you now. The fix may be easy. *Then* you file a Mantis only if the problem *needs* to be seen by you or Zauber. With all problems going to Mantis we have only two guys reading it vs everybody in the forums.

    Aw, I'm beating a dead horse here.

    ---

    Only my opinion. YMMV. Batteries not included. Opinion not valid in Puerto Rico, Alaska or Hawaii (sorry, Lani lolo).

  • Avatar
    Content Creator

    @Logan,

    This is as much "our grid" as we make it.  If all we throw into it is negativity... that's all we'll get out of it.  We can light torches and grab pitchforks, or we could try and figure out how to solve problems and work towards doing so, and I am in favor of solving problems.

    If you put forth the "us against them" mentality, then you're creating a self fulfilling prophecy, and you'll get exactly that.  If you really care, and really want things to improve, then let's see if we can figure out how.

  • Avatar
    Leanna Caerndow

    Logan wrote: "[...]report problems to the other people in the hopes those problems can be solved *without* filing a Mantis and taking up the Techs' time. Maybe one of *us* can help the poster.

    First you try the forums to see if somebody can help you now. The fix may be easy."

    Jim wrote in his blog: "The InWorldz forum is almost entirely provided for the residents. It is mostly a peer-to-peer discussion area"

    That sounds a lot like you're in agreement, that's great!

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    Logan Stargazer

    I'm not in agreement at all. Jim seems to be saying don't post any problem in the forum; use the Mantis instead and we will get to them when we get to them if we get to them.

  • Avatar
    Leanna Caerndow

    No.

    What Jim said is if you want an official reply or if you want to report a bug (with or without having discussed it with other people first) that you want fixed, the forum is not the way to get official help.

    There's a big difference between someone writing a "This or that just happened to me, has anyone else noticed?" and "This is a bug, fix it." The forum is here for the former. The latter needs to be reported so that developers can investigate.

    People post "This is a bug, fix it." in the forum and then complain about it not being fixed or that their message is being ignored. That's what Jim's blog post is about. It is in no way against people discussing in the forum, the way you try to make it seem.

     

     

  • Avatar
    Yichard Muni

    The "us against them" mentality is already here for some of us, and if we let it express, it will contaminate others and become an "official" standard. If you take the example of Second Life, it is amazing how so fast the Lindens passed from loved to hated (they helped, but this is not my point here).

    This "us against them" mentality may also make "them" feel bad, and explain why they are building a layer of protection. Self-fulfilling prophecy, as Content Creator says. Not the first time we see this expression, and it can explain other problems which appeared recently.

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    Arkady Arkright

    Leanna has it exactly right, well said.

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    Wolf Hartnell

    Agreed! This actually helps us greatly. It remains somewhere that InWorldz CAN announce things (to the subsection of residents that read the forums) if they want to, but more importantly it is somewhere that WE can discuss issues that we have WITHOUT management feeling that they have to immediately respond to the issues that we have. I often want to ask if anyone else has the same issue as me, BEFORE I raise a mantis issue for it.

    I think this might actually help encourage people to discuss issues that they otherwise would not have done. I wonder how many people are shy of reporting something, in case it is their mistake and they worry about wasting the time of the grid folks. They would be far more likely to ask in here first.

  • Avatar
    Yichard Muni

    Maybe simply with more activity, we need more organisation :-)

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    Claret LaKhabary

    Okay, in agreement with Leanna and Ark [and others] ... and this may come off sounding a bit snarky. It's meant to be "tongue in cheek" - ish!

    ... You know, I think it would be really great if Jim, et. al. could, maybe just update their blogs periodically [not on a set schedule or anything, just, "whenever it's not getting in the way of other stuff that benefits InWorldz."] and those who would like to know what's currently up with the devs could follow those blogs; alleviating the need for wasting time being repetitive, etc ... ?

    {I even sorta thought that's one reason blogs 'are' and people have them...?}

  • Avatar
    Zara Nyn

    When I was still a network goddess I was *constantly* getting personal support requests........I finally came to the point I marked my email as away and screened my phone calls so i could actually get some work done.

     

  • Avatar
    Logan Stargazer

    I would throw a virgin into the volcano to appease Network Goddess Zara if I could *find* a virgin in Inworldz..

    *Runs away cackling*

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    Yichard Muni

    Save the virgins!!!

     

    To avoid them this dire fate: un-virgin them!!

     

    oops 

  • Avatar
    Beth Reischl

    Quick note, just because I don't respond here often, doesn't mean I don't read the important stuffs. There was a time I adored logging into the grid, and doing things. At one point though, I had to start using an alt, because the moment I logged in, all I got were support requests. Then I'd see issues as an alt, and want to help and couldn't, so I finally abandoned that idea. Even though my profile states very clearly do NOT SUBMIT support requests to my account, people do not care. Much like they don't care when they ring my phone at 4 am for support (that's why the 800 number was removed, I was the only one answering it). They even ring my personal number because it's listed per the DMCA instructions. I once had someone call me 7 times in a row at 5 am on a Sunday morning. I am NOT awake at 5 am on a Sunday morning, or any morning for that matter.

    Even now, looking at my offlines, 25% of them are support requests, the rest are the events notices for our Official Events. I can start working on something, and be online for 5 hours, and only gotten 20 mins worth of what I wanted to work on, worked on. So I've been working with the support staff and Jim to really nail this down so I CAN be online and doing what I love to do, along with helping. But for a couple of years, it's been a steadfast concept that if I log in, the support/mantis system will be bypassed because people want help and they want it now. Which is understandable, but not all things can be done immediately. And even more difficult, is people will get ahold of me, Mai, Jim and THEN a support ticket. So now there's three of us trying to fix one issue because we don't realize that someone else is already working on it. 

    I will be putting out a post on our timeline for 2018 and what will be getting accomplished but right now, our most critical issue is assets, which is being worked on. It's going to take a bit, but that is one of the single most important issues we're dealing with right now and making sure the solution we put in place works. So, be patient, report any issues for bugs on mantis, support issues in our support tickets, and we'll work on everything as we always do.

    As for the virgins, good luck heheheh. And I don't think there is a way to "un-virgin" them... replacement cherries are not an option as far as I'm aware  :P

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    Yichard Muni

    Ouch Beth I agree that awaking people at 5 am is uncouth.

    Maybe you should do like Hadden in the "contact" movie: live in an aircraft travelling around the world all day. So that you would be always in working time 

     

    <serious>Thanks for giving infos on what the team is doing. Whoever follows things knew this, but many may not, so thanks</serious>

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    Zara Nyn

    Beth and I have disagreed about things (publicly sometimes :-p ) in the past but I can't agree with the following more. When I was network Goddess at a traditionally black state university (in a different state) I recieved support calls at all hours of the night normally from students who'd failed to prepare (which is preparing to fail) and expected me to magically fix it for them. There is no way on Gods green Earth if I were in her position I'd expose *any* phone number of mine to public scrutiny.

    Unfortunately part of my job at that University was I *had* to allow calls to ring through. I hear they've since changed that policy.

     

    Avatar
    Beth ReischlToday at 11:00
     

    Quick note, just because I don't respond here often, doesn't mean I don't read the important stuffs. There was a time I adored logging into the grid, and doing things. At one point though, I had to start using an alt, because the moment I logged in, all I got were support requests. Then I'd see issues as an alt, and want to help and couldn't, so I finally abandoned that idea. Even though my profile states very clearly do NOT SUBMIT support requests to my account, people do not care. Much like they don't care when they ring my phone at 4 am for support (that's why the 800 number was removed, I was the only one answering it). They even ring my personal number because it's listed per the DMCA instructions. I once had someone call me 7 times in a row at 5 am on a Sunday morning. I am NOT awake at 5 am on a Sunday morning, or any morning for that matter.

    Even now, looking at my offlines, 25% of them are support requests, the rest are the events notices for our Official Events. I can start working on something, and be online for 5 hours, and only gotten 20 mins worth of what I wanted to work on, worked on. So I've been working with the support staff and Jim to really nail this down so I CAN be online and doing what I love to do, along with helping. But for a couple of years, it's been a steadfast concept that if I log in, the support/mantis system will be bypassed because people want help and they want it now. Which is understandable, but not all things can be done immediately. And even more difficult, is people will get ahold of me, Mai, Jim and THEN a support ticket. So now there's three of us trying to fix one issue because we don't realize that someone else is already working on it. 

    I will be putting out a post on our timeline for 2018 and what will be getting accomplished but right now, our most critical issue is assets, which is being worked on. It's going to take a bit, but that is one of the single most important issues we're dealing with right now and making sure the solution we put in place works. So, be patient, report any issues for bugs on mantis, support issues in our support tickets, and we'll work on everything as we always do.

    As for the virgins, good luck heheheh. And I don't think there is a way to "un-virgin" them... replacement cherries are not an option as far as I'm aware  :P

  • Avatar
    Logan Stargazer

    >As for the virgins, good luck heheheh. And I don't think there is a way to "un-virgin" them

    > replacement cherries are not an option as far as I'm aware

    Uh..replacement cherries would be RE-virgining them.   Yich was talking about UN-virgining them. For that you need some Barry White, a bottle of champagne and silk sheets.

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