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State of InWorldz

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    Yichard Muni (Edited )

    Please stop spreading false news and bad mood! what happened is that when they lanched the gofunding stuff, they were not aware of the delay. This came later, as another obstacle.Now technically anybody can go on the go funding site and remove his donnation: monney is not transferred yet. Ele clearly stated you can!

     

    Now it may not be a smart move: money will be used to restaure inworldz anyway. In more inh may be refunded in izzies or in sims tier!!

     

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    Yichard Muni

    as Jim put it, the house in on fire, so that we save what we can. Of course the best would be that rackspace add a new delay... this needs a little miracle, of a bit of business grease... 

    On the other hand, restarting anew will allow to have a cheaper web hosting... rackspace is very costly. With prices comparable to Open Sims, but Inworldz quality, we could really start to pick up

     

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    Caipi Gin

    which delay?

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    Caipi Gin

    which delay..is it that the 17 k would be transferred to late or which delay?

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    Yngui Islar

    What Dark Mere said: "I personally am withdrawing support from this new goal. ... I want to make clear that I regard Beth as a very honourable lady who has acted in good faith at every turn, and has bent over backwards to come up with a solution. However this new direction is not what I signed up for, sorry.

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    Andromeda Quonset

    The way I understand it is that the 17K will pay for the current bill at Rackspace, which is due on Friday.  If you want to keep the grid from being turned-off on that date, Rackspace will need an additional $17K on Friday, making for a total of $34K due that day, and $17K every month thereafter.

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    Yngui Islar (Edited )


    @Yichard Muni  where on the gofundme page can you get your money back, please? Because I definitely don't have a button for that.

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    Sophia Larkspur

    if you go to the gofundme page and click for refund info a box comes up telling you to request a refund from the person who made the fund.

    @ Yichard:  Pot, meet kettle.

     

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    Alice Klinger (Edited )

    I am so sorry to see this happening. I thank you for your honesty and the good business we had over the years.

    With Paypal we all need to be very very careful, as this case proves.

    They have a huge monopoly when it comes to online business.

    Please do keep us posted, maybe even by email, once a new payment method is implemented and grid is back up and running.

    I hope and pray you will find ways to continue Inworldz.

     

     

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    shannara llewellyn

    i agree with sophia, yichard a lot of the things you are saying are confusing me & i am an old resident.

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    Jim Tarber

    I can assure you that there is a lot of listening going on, both in the forum and on Discord. Discord is real-time so it's easier to give immediate feedback. On the other hand, this forum provides a more permanent record that we can link to and provide more complete answers.  That said, in both cases, there are times when we're trying to accomplish something in the little time we have left and don't really have a chance to stop and provide more detailed answers (although both Elenia/Beth and I have stopped for those a couple of times).

    The burning house analogy is bit dramatic but I think appropriate here, and this is a bit like (hundreds of) neighbors and television interviewers expecting the firemen stop to answer their detailed list of questions about the fire rather than to keep trying to put it out or save what is inside.  And questions like "was anyone injured", while they are still fighting it.

    Some of the answers have been fuzzy, and may even change over time as new information is learned, and we hear feedback is provided by the users. We stop every now and then to read and catch up but last night when I checked back in there were over 1000 messages in Discord and a couple of pages in here.

    We're still working out the details in terms of the oar files, but again I want to point out that we haven't been saying what was in any oar files we could give to individual users. So any outcry over IP is a bit premature. We're thinking out loud and trying to find answers that address both sides of that debate.  First step is to capture all the data unfiltered so that we have options.  I've made some suggestions to Elenia that I think address this, but nothing is cast in stone yet.

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    Lindee Ellsmere

    Does anyone know how long before the new grid will be ready to jump onto? How many months or weeks?

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    Caipi Gin

    so we just donated to pay the arrears of the last month instead of the following month?

    But we thought we pay another month to get time..

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    Snoots Dwagon

    Okay I'm going to have a say here and then I'm on to real life:

    When Elf Clan first heard of this, the very first important recommendation that was made to Ele:

    Hire an attorney and get an EMERGENCY COURT INJUNCTION AGAINST RACKSPACE.

     

    This is the logical first step any savvy company would take when negotiations had broken down and some company was *threatening to intentionally destroy your company* through sheer stubbornness.  You go to a judge and lay it out, and in less than a day he decides to either sign the paper or not sign the paper.   When a company's existence is threatened they tend to sign the paper-- and at that moment it becomes ILLEGAL for Rackspace to shut down Inworldz until the matter is legally settled.

    No, there's no 100% in there.  The judge can always say no, and of course there are legal fees involved.  But those legal fees aren't $17,000... and Inworldz doesn't get its asset servers turned off and have to start all over again with years of inventory destroyed.

    Personally, my biggest gripe here... which I'm making public because getting a court injunction still isn't totally out of the question... is that in the 8 years we have been on Inworldz we have found the Founders to have a strong resistance to common-sense solutions, to cautions against going a certain direction (how many people warned Inworldz about the predictable negative effect on the grid when the "welcome center" became very un-welcoming?).  People have said it before:  customers have felt alienated by the company, no longer "part of the family", and no one at the helm seems to be interested in listening to the hundreds of years of collective wisdom of the customers-- who have paid the bills and now are the ones paying for this huge mess.

    I'm not saying Inworldz HAS to do what customers say.  No organization is run by the whim of individuals.  But when you have customers with real-life business experience and extensive virtual experience providing method after method of HOW TO SAVE THE GRID, INTACT.... when your own methods have totally failed and have obviously been failing for years... one would think an ounce of humility would set in and the company would start listening to common-sense solutions rather than these half-baked, nobody-is-going-to-be-happy "solutions".

    Inworldz residents aren't just people who suddenly popped up out of nowhere with no prior experience in life.  Many are seniors with DECADES of professional, real life experience.  Some are almost twice Ele's age.  Some have run real life businesses, been professional business consultants.  Some have PHDs and yes... some may even BE attorneys.  Yet Inworldz seems dead-set on making their own decisions-- decisions that are guaranteed at this point to destroy the majority of this grid and lose the majority of its customers.   This is not a course of sensibility.   I have to say at this point:  It's not even a course of sanity.  It is a course of VERY stressed out people making very bad decisions.  

    I do feel really sorry for Ele, can't imagine, but this is a continual line of major blunders here and even now, at the brink, no one is even considering the most viable, sensible, common-sense business solutions for saving this company AS IS, WITHOUT LOSS.

    Filing a court injunction wasn't the only standard business method that has been suggested over the past two days, but it was likely the most viable one in a short-time emergency.   That this was ever allowed to develop to this point without calling in legal assistance is just unbelievable.  

     

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    Tracer Ping (Edited )

    I think you have some good points there, Snoots.

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    Snoots Dwagon

    Follow-up:  That said, I have not given up on Ele.   Inworldz, I dunno.  But Ele is an old friend from waaay back.  We don't give up on friends just because they've made bad decisions.   I been an idiot a few times myself, maybe.   I'd like to think my friends stick with me even when I'm being stubborn.  That's what friendship is about.    I suspect a lot of "friends" have abandoned Ele at this time.   Dwagon won't be one of them.

    The drama queen back-stabbers and people that *even before this was happening* were using Inworldz public chat to try to drag people to other grids-- I have no respect them.  I don't care what their rationale or reason... that's just not done.  Claiming low participation and low attendance... then moving to a grid SMALLER than Inworldz and with fewer people online?  That doesn't wash.  It stinks.  If someone wants to move somewhere else that's fine, let 'em move.  Contact their group members, leave it at that.   We don't stab friends in the back in the process.  Using Inworldz chat to try to drag people to another grid (again, before all this went down), is low class.   Just sayin' what probably a lotta people been thinking.  No Inworldz isn't perfect. If they think where they're going won't have problems, they're in for some rude awakenings.

    I don't know what I'll do about Inworldz yet, because nobody knows yet what's going to become of Inworldz.   After this major snafu, how can I trust this won't happen again, in some other manner?  So we all have lots of decisions... but it's not personal.  We don't backstab Ele, and griping / complaining about what has gone is I guess, kind pointless.  

    So at this point for me and for Elf Clan, it's "Wait and see what happens".  I think that's all anyone can do at this time.  But I am, as of this message, "hands off".   Not. my. problem.  Tried to help, help declined, so it's in the hands of Ele and Jim now.   Which is a relief, cos the last 2 days (and this morning) have just taken too much out of precious RL time.   Time to focus on RL until this all gets sorted out.

    Ele, still wish you the best.  But not much we can do at this point.   Never has been.  Captain of the ship is responsible for the ship, no excuses.  If the ship sinks or comes limping into port,  wishing you well.  But it's pretty obvious:  under the current course, no one is coming out of this un-scarred.

     

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    Skye Varriale

      I understand that this is last-minute and the limitations involved as to what you can do, but I too thought the fund was for paying ahead not in arrears.  I also understand that INWORLDZ is in a sense a company, but not a company, because it is run by just a few people who we all have gotten to know.  Because of this, some of us are very attached to these people, (understandably), and others like me appreciate what we have had here but still feel a bit ripped off.  For me personally, I have put many, many hours into this grid as have most of you and I have spent thousands of USD on products here to support my business here.  Now my only option is to either leave it here to be trashed or take it to another grid where I can't really use it because it would involve a smaller base of commerce and hundreds of hours setting it all up again. On top of this, I don't get my money back for tier, if any, or whats in my account here. I was not informed or invited to the discord discussion so it's not really fair to say that a decision had been made by the people here to fund going to another grid. The truth is a few people here decided that.  Now our only option is to walk away or spend the next two days boxing up our possessions for another grid. That option makes me uncomfortable due to permissions rights. I also feel bad for those who bought my homes and region designs here and will lose them. For the record, it's NOT okay with me for my clients to take my creations to another grid, own them or not. Never has been and won't be now. 

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    Snoots, contact me about trying to build your own world. I have posted links to that option already, but it is a lonely option to go it alone, but then you are the one making the grid decisions. See how well you can do if better than SL or Beth. :)

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    Snoots Dwagon

    Vinhold, if I wanted to be crazy enough to open my own grid and put up with all that drama, I'd have done so 10 years ago.  I like to think not shooting myself in the foot was a wise decision. 

    I don't open a business based on flaky software.  SL software was flaky from the start, OpenSim was even flakier.  The reason I went with Inworldz was because it had its own devs.   What I didn't predict is that the founding core wouldn't hold together, that decisions would be made by individuals and the community pretty much locked out of that process.

    But in the end game... WE were the ones that made the decision to invest in Inworldz.  We walked into it from SL, eyes wide open.   The smart ones walked away from virtual worlds.  If someone didn't do that... then we all knew this was a crap shoot from the beginning.  

    While people may rightly blame Ele for many things in this, we cannot blame her for our making a decision to invest in an unstable platform and hoping for the best.   We all invested-- knowingly-- in promises... and those promises have not panned out.   All investments  are iffy, some more than others.  I once said "Virtual Worlds are one of the worst investments on earth."   I believe that statement has proved to be true.

    I can advise Beth, and yes... to be honest I believe I could have done this better, at least on the business end.  Since Inworldz is tanking though, I think it's possible a lot of people could make exactly the same claim.   Mistakes have been made.  Foresight was not the best, to put it mildly.  Does that mean I'm going to be insane enough to open a grid myself?

    From what I see, the virtual society is NO BETTER OFF than when we left SL for ripping off thousands of people.   The difference here:  Ele did not do this intentionally.  Linden Lab pulled a bait-and-switch and stabbed their customers in the back in the name of increased profit.  It backfired on them.  Their region count plunged by 20%, they lost hundreds of thousands of customers-who-became-enemies, and frankly left the way wide open for their competition.  It's a shame decisions weren't made to give LL some REAL competition. Its a shame Inworldz is shutting down. 

    So with all that considered, no sir, I'm not going to open my own grid.  That doesn't mean we can't see the flaws in what's been done... that those flaws haven't been visible for YEARS (and Inworldz cautioned about them... only to have those cautions discarded).   So here we are.  Inworldz is tanking.   So you tell me if someone else could have done a better job at running Inworldz.  I think the answer is pretty obvious.

    That's not intended to dis Ele.   I feel very sorry for her at this time.  Wouldn't want to be in her shoes.  I'm just answering your question.  The key to making good grid decisions is DON'T MAKE THEM ALONE.  Get people who are NOT "yes men" to point out the icebergs in your path.   I believe I'm accurate in saying that failing to listen to sound advice over the years has been one of Inworldz major flaws.  When customers start getting upset but the company still insists on its own path-- a path that has been failing for years-- then the customers aren't to blame.  We've seen this with SL, with Inworldz, and with other grids (look at what happened to OSgrid when they put too much power in the hands of one person).

    So that's my answer.  No, I am not insane enough to open a virtual reality grid.   Well, not THAT insane, anyway.  ; )

     

     

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    Caipi Gin

    they closed the donations but no statement..

     

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    Sophia Larkspur

    They closed the donations because of all the arguing going on over on the gofundme page.  If you want a refund of your donation you can open a ticket and request it.

     

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    Caipi Gin

    I'm so torn between asking for a refund or hoping that the money still makes a miracle come true..to keep our loved  OLD IW...but actually I know its just a miracle..

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    Caipi Gin

    if the project is killed..do we get the money back? Or what are the plans now?

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    Becca Diamondfire

    in the course of 24 hours we have been getting our hopes up that everything was going to be ok. But in a way we were lied to to get the funds to keep Inworldz up and running only to be told oh no we are letting it die and start over again with new servers. I understand that the new servers would have the old DB installed BUT! all our inventory would be gone forever! and there is the issues with the creators and the DCMA! all I can say is good luck to you all my friends i have made over the years and if you want to come say Hi to me i will be on Kinky Grid on the OS. come check it out and maybe you like me will find a home there...

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    I hate to bear bad news, but OpenSim is nearly dead. Its software has major problems in it that will not sustain a large grid as InWorldz has been. Also if you like the concept of open items and open share, maybe that is the place for you. But a good grid needs to be sustained on more than a laptop or home computer. That requires money. Yes it is not a wise plan to rent servers for a grid, far cheaper in the long run to own your own hardware, however that is more costly up front. So some balance is needed and plan for expansion. I am sure Elenia has that worked out now and the rest of the grid owners have been paying attention. I have long known the owners and as a result have my own special application world running on Halcyon simulator that powered InWorldz. It works. It is getting better. I salute Snoots, I know about the great migration of the Elf Clan from SL to IW. I was in IW when it happened and I am still in SL. It is hard to run a grid and think you can do better than LL or this team. But to go away and die out is the only other option. A new or rebuilt world, can learn from what works and what failed from before. I want to move on to a new future and I hope this world will be there.

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    AyaBe Random

    i don't understand what the huge thing is about moving servers and people crying ip issues. if it is still inworldz on new servers then wouldn't the ToS to not take items out of inworldz still be in effect? I mean internet companies change servers often, some more then others. most companies don't inform you when they do this cause they know they will face all this outcry from the masses. I ran a website that dealt with databases and in 1 year we changed servers 3 times. nobody ever knew anything cause it is a relatively simple procedure to repopulate a database if you have a backup from the old database. so my question is how is Inworldz so different? can't you just get hard copy backups and reinstate everything on new servers and still keep it inworldz?

    I am no pro on open sim and have never even tried to mess with a backend so maybe I am clueless but if you been running this site for 10 years somebody should have been prepared for this and had a backup plan that included migrating everything or most things intact right?

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    It may have had such a plan at one point, but after a few years of 1TB data in Assets growth per month, it soon became so large as to not be copyable to anywhere without doubling the server expenses. 

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    AyaBe Random

    empty everybody's trash collection and you'll knock out 2/3 of all that data. I read somewhere that once you upload anything to opensim even if you delete it, it sticks around lol empty the trash and move the good stuff. ask for a weekly pay schedule to clear up your debt, in 9 days you should be able to extract what's good as a whole right?

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    Actually the trash can emptied only removes the record from your inventory. It does not remove any associated assets. None of the assets are removed ever. There is no way to accurately know where any of them might be referenced since assets can reference other assets to any level of depth. Removal of any would depend on several factors, but not until just recently would that investigation have even been possible. Maybe by end of the year or next will there be tools able to access and analyse the assets dependency references.

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    AyaBe Random

    well I just hope this grid don't close. I hate kitely. they ain't as nice as the people I met here so far. nobody even said hi to me there hahahaha I'm not sure if anybody even exsists there. so praying for that miracle ending here.

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