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    Raspberry Crystal (Edited )

    Wonderful to see that total clicking upwards on gofundme.

    Reminds me how much other people care about what I care about!

     

    edit: I wanted to pay using paypal, just to annoy them, but apparently gofundme don't allow it. Any use in writing a complaint to the big PP about their corporate big squishy footness?

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    Claret LaKhabary

    It's good to see the go fund me total tic ever upward (over 15,000 at the time of this writing) and way short of the 24 hour mark! This makes me even more confident that InWorldz will move forward without much more than breaking a sweat.

    I'll be watching for information on how we'll work out tiers, etc, going forward. I have the utmost faith that this hiccup will be a learning experience for all and that we'll look back on it, having grown stronger, a little wiser & a little closer than before.

    Peace (& out for the night)

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    Skye Varriale

     So it looks like the gofundme will reach the amount needed. that's great! What happens after a month though?  Just asking because no matter how much we may want Inworldz to succeed, once people know there's the chance it won't, who is going to be confident in coming here and investing, not only in land but in the products we sell? It's a question that has to and should be asked. We know now that inworldz has no back-up funds, if it did this wouldn't have happened. So how does it move forward? Not trying to be a downer, just as a long time real life business owner, that's how I think.

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    Beth Reischl

    Hi Skye,

    Well, that was the question I posed to everyone in the discord this afternoon... then what? The losses would have been too huge to continue on and we'd be in same mess next month. 

    The residents, not me, suggested starting a new grid. While we still have access to the Database, etc., keeping creators profiles (everyones profiles actually), groups intact, etc. Inventory is still a loss, as are cashouts, but we start smaller, streamlined, and our devs think it's a good idea as they will have something less bulky to work with. This however, will take a couple of weeks. 

    So here's the catch, if you don't want that, then please get a refund from the GFM. Anything in there currently, will be used as startup capital for the new grid.

    Hope that helps!

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    Skye Varriale

     Will this grid be cheaper for us?  If so how?   It certainly won't have the amenities this one has. Slower/older servers? Will it still be a closed grid to prevent our creations from being carried easily from grid to grid and stolen like IWZ? It seems too, that all of a sudden you are not going to pay back people the funds in their accounts? I thought you were doing that as of last night. I also thought the GFM was for paying back the debt you owed so we could continue on as planned.  I completely understand why everyone wants to stay together but emotion should never take over common sense.   I haven't yet paid into the GFM because there are so many questions left unanswered. 

     

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    Christine Nyn

    > Beth Reischl

    >......The residents, not me, suggested starting a new grid......

    In my opinion this is your best shot. It draws a line under any longer term problems IW may still be experiencing and allows a clean start and a leaner operation. If you were to port across OARs to a new grid, where I understand objects and contents of objects are preserved as an integral part of the sim image you may well have an answer to the loss of inventory problem too. If people boxed up their inventory and set it out on a sim ( and I'm sure existing sandbox or exhibition areas could be used for those who would not otherwise have a "rezz spot") then everything except no-copy items could, I think, be preserved.

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    Yngui Islar

    @Beth: what is a discord and where can I find it please? I must have missed an announcement?

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    Krystal Moonstone

    @Yngui Islar .... here is the original post re Discord - I am not sure if it is the correct channel but may get you started until Beth can reply, >>>  It is a voice communications system.....



    https://inworldz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360000506714-You-Are-Invited-  

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    Beth Reischl

    @Skye - I am definitely hoping so, but I'll know more after I start shopping servers on Monday. So I'll keep everyone in the loop on that!

    @Yngui - Discord is here: https://discord.gg/svjBh5V

    @Christine - Thanks!

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    shannara llewellyn

    im so confused =^.^= hope whatever is happening someone spells it out in easy clear to follow steps of implementation, lol.

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    Michael Timeless

    So, do we have the opportunity to get a temp sim to leave our items rather than box them to a sandbox?  I'd rather have an OAR than hope for a sandbox restoration.

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    Becca Diamondfire

    Bob she wants to close down Inworldz and start a new grid that is wrong read the update from the go fund me page!

    Wow! Everyone has been amazing! So here's where things stand. I asked in discord this afternoon, once we hit our goal, then what? What about next month? After much agonizing and upset, it was suggested by the residents that we use these monies to start a new grid. We'll be able to move OARS, profiles, groups. Inventory can only be taken that can be put in a box to be OAR filed. We'll be opening the sandbox for people who have no region to place their items and can get them back.

    If you are NOT ok with this, I urge you to please withdraw your support on the page. I do not want to take anyone's money who is not ok with this! Otherwise, please start boxing your items up on your region or ask a friend or tomorrow I'll be opening the Sandboxes up for people!

    Every single one of you simply amazes me!

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    Vinhold Starbrook (Edited )

    What is wrong with InWorldz running on new servers or InWorldz running on the existing old servers? If it is still the same world and data content, would you really know there was a change? Bob Curtice

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    shannara llewellyn

    sounds like a bit more work in between? is it that easy o:

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    Susanna Valeska

    This may be a bit of a stupid question, but how are we going to find out the name of the new grid?  I'm assuming this website will stay up for awhile, maybe.  Interested to see what happens. Good luck everyone.  Stay or go, love you all.

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    Jim Tarber (Edited )

    I'm going to post a mostly technical update, but first some comments on these events.  (Edit: Okay that failed, technical will follow in next message!)

    Elenia doesn't "want to close InWorldz".  It's not being doing on a whim. Unfortunately Rackspace does want to get paid, and even if the gofundme campaign was successful (looks like it's going to be) there won't be enough money arriving in time, and more will be needed soon enough. Elenia doesn't want to close the grid but if those servers go down, that's it. No inventory, no assets. No purchases, no creations.  And it doesn't make sense to keep asking people for more money as donations, not when it's thousands of dollars and an ongoing concern. We can spend the next couple of days arguing about all the possible ideas people have but the time frame is days and anything like legal or investment (which is also legal) or whatever just has far too long a time frame.  The servers will be down and we'll have NOTHING if we spend our time looking for something that can save it in the next 48 hours or so.

    The community has been amazing, shown so much support, I've been shocked by just how much. Everyone who has been a part of this must now be reassured that the support has always been there, just a bit quiet at times.

    It's a very unfortunate combination of events for us but now we need to focus on saving what we can. Maybe rebuilding fresh.  We're continuing with absolutely nothing if we don't spend these days preparing for the server shutdowns.

    No one likes this. I worked for InWorldz full-time for 7 years, the first year full-time without a salary, and then over 5 years a paid developer but still as a labor of love, 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, 350+ days a year. I've never really been this blunt about it, but now's the time.  Yes I got paid a monthly income for that, we have rent to pay etc. But not for all those hours, for such a long time. Not for giving up every weekend for years. And Elenia for about 10 years. So if anyone thinks this is what either of us want, you don't pour that much into something to see it just vanish. It's a long-term investment of your energies and your heart. Like many of you, we want this place, and we like it.

    Now I wonder if it was worth it, and I think the answer is yes.  There's a hell of a group of people here, accomplish a lot, even if it's just entertaining each other. Also the many charities and good work everyone has done, along with the incredible builds and creations.  So yeah, it was worth it. Since November I've been working full-time somewhere else, and staying committed to whatever was most important that week at IW with about a day's work on top of the full-time job. There's only so much we can accomplish with a day a week and a small number of volunteer developers, but I'm proud of what the Halcyon guys have done, and will probably continue to do. We have some interesting possibilities ahead if it's not focused on solving the asset servers migration problem, like PhysX update to allow running on Linux? Docker? Dynamic cloud regions available instantly? Who knows where Halcyon might go without the existing IW servers and all that data.  But did we want servers to shut down? Hell no.  Only once we migrated the data to new, more affordable, reliable and performant storage.

    Remember, the many servers shutting down in a few days means we lose everything. So let's talk instead about what we can save. I'm going to post that technical summary separately since this intro paragraph is now its own message.

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    shannara llewellyn

    Thanks Jim looking forward to your technical summary. Id love to save some stuff.

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    Lindee Ellsmere

    Jim, are you saying our donations will not help then? After reading what Ele wrote, it sounds like IW is shutting down in spite of the money that was needed. I don't understand how this can happen and why everything was so sudden. Is that what you guys are saying or am I misunderstanding (which is totally possible). 

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    Lindee Ellsmere

    I thought if we came up with $17,000.00 the grid could be saved. :(

     

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    Jim Tarber

    Okay, let's talk instead about what we can save.  We're in emergency mode due to the unavoidable sudden news that the servers will shut down Friday, so the "plan" has been under constant change while Elenia tries to keep you informed and yet we also try to adjust it as we learn more information.  It's not so much something planned, as much as an emergency response.

    When the servers are shut down on us, there will be no more assets. There will be no more inventories.  We have large arrays of both and the sheer size of the data means we can't possibly copy it somewhere else in time, even if we could afford to double up the storage temporarily and pay for the very large bandwidth costs to copy outside Rackspace. So we need to plan for the loss of user inventories and assets.

    The database is smaller and we can grab what is in that. This is the stuff smaller grids have, although they store their assets in the database too (which can really hurt performance over time).  Users, profiles, partnerships, profile preferences, groups, memberships, even notices, region contents (although they don't have the assets in those), mute lists, and a few other things.  We can just grab that and keep a copy personally.

    There are many wonderful places to visit in InWorldz, and so saving the regions where possible is obviously a priority too. Fortunately, we can grab is an object archive (OAR) file for each region.  There's an option to store assets which we don't normally include, because we normally have the assets on their on servers.  We can save each region's contents into an OAR file with assets.

    Now I want to impress upon you that this isn't an orderly evacuation, the house is on fire due to the timing of the server shutdowns and this is your chance to grab the important stuff before it burns down.  What you consider important is up to you, and how much effort you put into it as well.  I had 200,000 items in my (multiple) SL inventories when I came to IW and I mostly just abandoned that. It can be done and even can be fun to start with a clean inventory, that's part of the fun of creating an alt. Nobody wants to be forced into that though, so this is your chance to determine how much to take with you from the burning house.

    • To allow us to capture as much content as possible, for anything that you consider important enough to be worth your effort, please take that inventory item and rez it in a region either that you own, or one of the InWorldz Sandbox regions. If it's not an object, rez a box label the box, and add the inventory item to the Contents of the box.

    Now, I don't know where these OAR files might get used. We haven't tested loading them on an OpenSim region, just Halcyon servers. It's difficult to test all the combinations of things. It's a "best effort" in short time. There are lots of possibilities of where to go from here, everything from:

    • revive IW later (with a clean slate of servers), to
    • establishing a smaller new grid, to
    • creating an only place you can log in and access these OAR files already rezzed up in a region, to
    • just telling everyone to take them to a SimOnAStick installation or an OpenSim grid.  All of these are problematic in some way.

    I prefer something in the first three, but there are all kinds of legal, financial and logistic problems with them.  I keep looking at the third case as a possibility, at least for me personally, as a favor to everyone who has been a part of InWorldz (and as the person who implemented the permissions system here!)

    The last case above will lead to fairly significant conflicts from those who feel this is a violation of IP. As the person who has been screaming for tight permissions for years, I'm still going to say it's not, until someone actually uploads something they don't have a license for.  Even then, as I understand it (I'm no lawyer) there have been court rulings in some jurisdictions that have asserted that a license is somewhat portable under some conditions, especially where the current software fails to allow the license to continue, and closing of a grid like this would seem to be such a case.  At any rate, the question is whether or not Elenia can stomach just telling everyone they are losing everything, or if she says we must try to make user's content available to them where possible. There is no choice at all unless we save these OAR files, so that is the first step and independent of how the content gets used later. Let's start there.

    There's another way to save content, complete with assets, but it's a manual process the user must perform:

    • Firestorm viewer supports "OXP" export files (object exports) that include assets. You can rez an object, right-click and choose More -> More -> Save As -> Backup. This export however will apply permissions and/or creator rules to determine which parts of the object is exportable.  In SL, I found that many of the objects I built could not be exported, because I started the projects with generic library prims (created by Philip Linden). This can be very frustrating, but it's important to have all the facts here. However, if you created something from scratch, it might be a critical save tool.  Also, I believe Firestorm tries to allow the export of any pieces (e.g. textures) that do meet the export restrictions, so you can sometimes export most of the object even if you don't get the it 100%.

    This is all just our best attempts to help you preserve your investments of time and energy and the monies spent on virtual products.  It's seriously flawed, but it's the best we can do, especially given only a few days notice and the technical and other challenges and constraints.  Many other grids have just shut down, not refunded recent purchases, etc. That's not going to happen here, in spite of the fact that Elenia has effectively lost her job this week, and I'm going to feel the crunch and not be paid by IW this month. But she's putting herself out there to provide whatever answers she or I are aware of, and I'm working to try to collect as much of the content as possible so it's not a complete loss.  She and MaiTai will have a full rest of the week manually grabbing OAR files with assets, and I'll probably be the one to try to save the database.

    I'm not yet sure what we're grabbing this stuff for, but it's better than just letting it poof and then coming up with a great plan later when it's too late. 

    So it's up to you to try to help us make sure that your content is included when we grab it.  More details will follow as we learn them or firm up something more.

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    The OAR files will load just fine in a Halcyon grid. I have been doing that a lot over the last year. So a new Halcyon grid will be just like InWorldz is. No changes.

     

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    Digital Digital (Edited )

    @Vinhold do you have a working guide how to launch a Halcyon grid?

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    Yes. See https://github.com/InWorldz/halcyon/wiki/Configuration for set up information for intended grid size or expansion. Also see http://www.myworldsrc.com/ for a website front end and management.

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    Digital Digital

    @Vinhold - Thanks

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    Krystal Moonstone (Edited )

    @Jim Tarber, do we leave the box with the inventory included, sitting on the region or sandbox?  and will the 4 hours return be turned off, so it doesn't get sent back.

     

    thanks

    Krystal

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    @ Krystal Moonshine. If you have land in IW, put your inventory you want to keep on it, or use the sandbox to put it out. in a new world, you will have your account retained there and will be able to pic it up again. No one else can do that. 

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    Krystal Moonstone

    @Vinhold, thank you ... it is at a sandbox, do I need to set the perms in any particular way?

     

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    Vinhold Starbrook

    No, only you will be able to pick it up again later.

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    Caipi Gin

    Sorry I'm so confused! My English is not so good to understand everything...

    What do a sim owner has to do now? We drag our inventory in a box and leave it on our sims?

    Why will the severs shut down ...what are the 17.000 for?

    I thought everything will be the same if we get the money???

    Why a new grid?

     

     

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    Yichard Muni

    After what I gather, we have, in a summary:


    PLAN A:
    saving inworldz in or from rackspace. This is what the go funding was for. Problem, this may not be possible, because of delays, withou some "miracle" help or a commercial gesture from rackspace.


    PLANB:
    create another grid. They will manage to save the database allowing to log, and use OAR files to save the rezzed content. This way, you can save your content by rezzing it in your sim, if needed in boxes in your sims. If you don't have a sim, do it in the sandboxes.
    Problem is that OARS, if send to everybody without caution, violate IP rights. Jim Tarber is working in a solution to avoid this. The best solution I see is that those OARs are used only internally, not given to us
    See jims comment on how to save YOUR content:
    https://inworldz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007381013?page=4#comment_360000577834

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